The Future of Fractional Marketing in an AI World

00;00;02;18 – 00;00;27;29
Speaker 2
Welcome, everyone, to the Fractional operator, our new podcast here. And of course, brought to you by hourglass SaaS, which is, to my knowledge, the very first operations platform brought to you by fractional operators for fractional operators, so built and designed by people that are working in the industries of the fractional service based company or individuals. So excited to be here and bring that to you guys.

00;00;27;29 – 00;00;32;02
Speaker 2
And very excited to be with my old friend Todd Bailey. Todd. What’s happening?

00;00;32;04 – 00;00;34;03
Speaker 1
I’m not that old, Michael.

00;00;34;05 – 00;00;38;01
Speaker 2
No. Just old friend. Yeah. And friend.

00;00;38;03 – 00;00;47;12
Speaker 1
Great to be here. I’m really excited to be part of this. I think it’s a brilliant concept to talk more about these sorts of things. It’s growing quickly as we talk. Yeah.

00;00;47;15 – 00;01;21;04
Speaker 2
Yeah. It’s you know, there’s certainly there’s there’s other podcasts and other pieces to the fractional community that are out there. But you know, in my book, it’s never, never hurts to have one more voice, you know, to be throwing into into the void and try to get information and, and more than that, you know, Todd, what I have in mind with this podcast is really like best practice kind of telling people story, but also talking about like, what works and what doesn’t work and how they run their businesses so that either an existing fractional operator or even someone that’s not a solopreneur but is running a company and they have other people working

00;01;21;04 – 00;01;43;21
Speaker 2
for them, you know, or if someone is considering going into being a fractional, which I think we’re going to be seeing more and more and more here as the, the job market changes and the world changes and all the exciting things that are going on there. I just think it’s such a great way to really get them information so that they can see how other people are doing it and what’s working, what’s not working.

00;01;43;21 – 00;01;45;16
Speaker 2
So I’m excited, man.

00;01;45;18 – 00;01;47;08
Speaker 1
I love it. It’s great concept.

00;01;47;10 – 00;01;54;20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Thanks. And and to your point, as far as being old, I’m officially not getting ID’d for alcohol anymore.

00;01;54;22 – 00;01;56;23
Speaker 1
So the rays will do that.

00;01;56;25 – 00;02;10;18
Speaker 2
You know, it’s it’s happened to me probably a good half dozen times in the last few months where I’m like, you know, buying a six pack or whatever. And I’m like, pull my idea out. And they’re like, no, no, you’re okay. I’m like, no, I’m not okay.

00;02;10;18 – 00;02;19;21
Speaker 1
Now that should be like a new customer service feature where they just ask everybody, even if it’s true. Yeah, yeah. Now it’s like, oh thank you.

00;02;19;21 – 00;02;31;15
Speaker 2
You know. Yes. Yeah. Like thank you. It’s the baby baby face obviously. So Todd, for our listening audience, if you don’t mind, you know, give us just a little bit about yourself and about and about your business.

00;02;31;18 – 00;03;04;03
Speaker 1
Sure. So I came from, music background, and, entered corporate America and always kind of maintained some level of creativity in my life, which bled over into things like graphic design and, eventually photography and picking up cameras, which then turned into videography. And, this sort of expanded the content creation side of things to the point where I didn’t feel like corporate America was really my path any longer and decided to kind of go full time with the creative stuff.

00;03;04;05 – 00;03;33;00
Speaker 1
But because I came from corporate America, I had a really good sense of kind of different industries. I had been in many different industries in my career. And so, having had at least some pulse on what things, how things function in these various industries and then bringing my content creativity to the table, I started to see sort of this emergence of, wow, there’s really a lot of, spillover between content and marketing.

00;03;33;03 – 00;03;57;12
Speaker 1
And this was at the very early stages of the smartphone, which was supposed to put me out of business. But it turns out that more people creating is a better thing than less people creating. And having been a creator for a dozen plus years now, I like to think that I’m, you know, well, learned enough to be an expert at it, at least to some extent.

00;03;57;12 – 00;04;09;04
Speaker 1
So when you combine that with the marketing knowledge and the corporate experience, I sort of coined myself as a creative thought leader. And that’s really where I start with people.

00;04;09;06 – 00;04;15;29
Speaker 2
And as far as your role in corporate America, what were you doing? Were you operations resales, what kind of stuff were you doing there.

00;04;16;01 – 00;04;42;05
Speaker 1
Done a lot of sales a lot of different sales. Management. Eventually I was responsible for, I think, as many as 50 to 70 salespeople. So, I loved that too, because I could kind of tap my creativity to build trainings and things like that. But I couldn’t escape the creative side. No matter what I’ve done, whether I’ve working in construction or selling cars or anything I could do to be creative, it was always a need.

00;04;42;07 – 00;04;43;07
Speaker 1
So.

00;04;43;09 – 00;05;07;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. So bringing that in and so, you know, one of the questions I definitely want to circle back around on, on the sales aspect at some point in this conversation, because that’s at something I, I really want to educate, especially the, the people that are considering becoming fractional is like how important your ability to sell becomes when you’re a solopreneur, right?

00;05;07;15 – 00;05;20;06
Speaker 2
So I want to circle back to that. But before we do, I did you you started doing the creative side first, and that led into doing some of the fractional strategy marketing things that you do.

00;05;20;08 – 00;05;39;07
Speaker 1
On my 21st birthday, I was selling real estate, and I was, named the marketing manager of a small real estate firm in Malta. And so that kind of put me in boardrooms at a pretty young age and having conversations about, you know, websites and graphic design and the trifold brochure back then was a big deal.

00;05;39;09 – 00;06;04;26
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well I lost so much, but yeah. So, anyway, it got me, you know, at least into the marketing side of things in a more serious way. And this was before I was creating content. So like I said, it was kind of just this meld of experience that eventually I kind of looked and said, well, I think if somebody came along and hired me, I could probably run their whole marketing department at this point.

00;06;04;28 – 00;06;27;21
Speaker 1
But as far as sales and sales go and obviously the importance of people skills and things like that, it’s like the old adage, everybody should wait tables. I started out waiting tables, grew up as a teenager in restaurants. And it just really obviously it forces you to interact with a number of different types of personalities, navigating that, learning how to, how to treat people well and how to make people happy.

00;06;27;21 – 00;06;33;16
Speaker 1
And I think those are universal skills that, you know, they can’t teach that in college, I would say.

00;06;33;19 – 00;07;00;07
Speaker 2
Yeah, I know I, I, I don’t think that they do, but they should and sometimes fortunately. Right. Because that just creates more work for those of us that did grow up in the restaurant business. Right. So when you’re, I’m curious about when you’re working with clients, like what is that from a, from a fractional standpoint, because obviously you have multiple aspects, but from a fractional standpoint, what does it look like for you currently to work with your clients?

00;07;00;10 – 00;07;23;09
Speaker 1
Well, I frame up a relationship with, one of my fractional clients by starting and saying I’m the tip of the spear. Okay, so consider me in your C-suite, hence CMO. Right? So I need to be involved in those high level meetings and conversations as much as I can. So we create a communication cadence. And then I talk about the levers.

00;07;23;11 – 00;07;42;22
Speaker 1
You know, which levers need to be pulled. In some cases, there may be in-house marketing folks. In some cases they have no one in-house. So we really start there, and then we start to position all those levers and say, okay, you know, who’s going to be pulling and pushing this one? And, and we kind of go down the line and we frame all that up.

00;07;42;25 – 00;08;07;15
Speaker 1
And, just like any plan, you know, you adjust and you revisit the results and sometimes priorities change. And so but that’s kind of the framework. Anyways, I’m right here. You know, I think the fun thing about having the experience that I do in all these areas web design, graphic design, photo video, all of it, right? I can get in and I can pull and push any of those levers at any time.

00;08;07;18 – 00;08;23;11
Speaker 1
And I also have, you know, people that work with me kind of part time or, various teams that I know really sort of shine in this realm. And so I may allocate in that direction. And that’s really again, that’s like the framework entirely.

00;08;23;11 – 00;08;42;29
Speaker 2
Yeah. How do you when you’re looking at what resources in your team or in your network, whether it’s through a strategic partner or a 1099 or an employee, like, how do you decide on who’s going to do what when? Like what does that typically look like?

00;08;43;01 – 00;09;07;23
Speaker 1
Well, I think you have to begin with the end in mind, as always. And, you know, oftentimes that’s maybe a yearly goal that we back into and then start to break that down and say okay quarterly goals things like that. So starting with those goals we then go, okay, now having been a professional now for I have to get a calculator out to figure out how long.

00;09;07;25 – 00;09;30;04
Speaker 1
And an avid networker my entire life. Yeah. I just I’ve established a Rolodex of people that I have a great deal of confidence in a long term relationship with your mom, and I really try to know where they shine as creatives. So I’m always meeting creatives. In fact, I’ve got in the last few months, I’ve had at least, two interns.

00;09;30;07 – 00;09;58;12
Speaker 1
Right. So I love to work with young people and bring them in. And oftentimes there’s one aspect of, of this, you know, ecosystem where they really like to thrive, whether it’s the photo side or the video side. And so I try to work with all, all the people in my network to identify their strengths, help enhance them, if I can, in order so that we can feel confident that when I know that I need to work with this person, this is where they shine and I know that’s the person.

00;09;58;15 – 00;10;08;11
Speaker 2
So do you focus more on being the conductor than being a member of the orchestra, or do you really kind of just go back and forth depending on what’s necessary?

00;10;08;13 – 00;10;28;18
Speaker 1
Yeah, a little bit of both. So I again, because I can execute just about any of those moving parts on my own, I think that gives me a unique, you know, scope. And I know I can get my hands dirty sort of say in that. So I’m conducting and then, you know, in the middle of the song, I’ll run around and I’ll sit down, I’ll play the violin.

00;10;28;20 – 00;10;29;16
Speaker 2
Fair enough.

00;10;29;19 – 00;10;30;14
Speaker 1
Yep.

00;10;30;17 – 00;10;31;24
Speaker 2
When it’s needed.

00;10;31;26 – 00;10;44;25
Speaker 1
And that’s the same thing we just talked about with all these partnerships and strategic, you know, 1099 and things. Sometimes it’s me, sometimes I go, no, it’s this needs to be me. I need to take this and manage this because I know I’m the guy.

00;10;44;27 – 00;11;05;10
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, yeah. And that’s what is that like, what is the the litmus test or the filter or the, the decision making process that you go through to decide, like I’m the guy that’s actually going to I’m going to sell it, I’m gonna be the CMO, and I’m going to perform this scope as well.

00;11;05;12 – 00;11;29;07
Speaker 1
I think it’s an instinct. Okay. Because I’ve been doing this for so long, I just know that, for instance, sometimes, we get an S.O.S. call, right? Websites down, you know, things come up like that, and I know that I’m the guy because I have, you know, an hour and I can get it done within that hour.

00;11;29;09 – 00;11;57;23
Speaker 1
It just makes sense, you know? So it’s really. And I would love to say it’s perfectly templated out, but it’s really just kind of my intuition. Yeah. And, you know, it it works quite well, though, I think to your point, though, having the proper partnerships and, you know, really identifying who is the key person for that particular lever, it’s just an instinct, though, and just years and years of building relationships and trust with the people that I work with.

00;11;57;25 – 00;12;22;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s funny where you said, like, you know, spur of the moment stuff like what we call marketing emergencies. And what’s really funny is so we’ve been doing this about 15 years. I’ve been in marketing, and I remember for the first five years, I don’t know why I thought this, but I thought getting into marketing meant that my, my schedule would be like Monday through Friday, 9 to 5.

00;12;22;14 – 00;12;43;11
Speaker 2
Right? Because I’m working with businesses, I’m like, it’s marketing. Like what’s going to come up that I need to get phone calls at night and on weekends, right. And then what I, of course, reality was there to smack me in the face and be like, no, no, there are marketing messages all the time, like websites go down as social media posts went out incorrectly.

00;12;43;16 – 00;13;01;02
Speaker 2
L.A. who knows what can happen? Typo in something, whatever. And it was just like, oh my God. Like this was like, we had to implement a whole piece of our business that was basically like, you know, the the on call emergency department for, for marketing. I was like, this is wild.

00;13;01;04 – 00;13;02;20
Speaker 1
Yes, wild.

00;13;02;23 – 00;13;04;10
Speaker 2
I’m glad it’s not just meantime.

00;13;04;12 – 00;13;07;12
Speaker 1
No, it’s a reality, you know, but I think happen.

00;13;07;14 – 00;13;08;00
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;13;08;03 – 00;13;11;15
Speaker 1
At least for now until I, I’m just kidding. I’m not going to go there.

00;13;11;17 – 00;13;32;29
Speaker 2
The. I mean, we can go there. It’s certainly I, you know, to be fair, I think that I is going to be one of the things that pushes a lot of people fractional, not just because companies are, you know, using AI as an excuse to, you know, cut teams and things like that, but also like it gives the ability to solopreneurs to do a lot more work.

00;13;33;01 – 00;14;04;11
Speaker 2
Right? And exactly a lot of different facets. So that’s to me. And again, one of the drivers behind the podcast is like, there’s going to be a lot of people hitting that fractional market that are like, why am I doing this for one company? And, you know, not being in control of my destiny, I can go ahead and use quad or whatever it’s going to be to really like increase the amount of time that I can get work done in so that I can handle more work and I can do it without hiring teams, at least in the beginning anyway.

00;14;04;13 – 00;14;27;04
Speaker 2
I think ultimately. So would you say that like because when I, when I look at when I look at a lot of businesses, but certainly around the fractional side of things, I feel like I see two different kinds of business owner. One kind is like the lifestyle fractional, where they’re like, well, you know, realistically, like I’m leaving corporate America.

00;14;27;04 – 00;14;46;07
Speaker 2
I don’t want to work 60 to 80 hours a week anymore. And I know as a fractional I can have, you know, I can either charge 250 bucks an hour for what I do, or I can put people on a subscription model. I can work with five, five clients. I’ve got a pretty good lifestyle at that point. Or the other side.

00;14;46;07 – 00;15;04;28
Speaker 2
There’s the the kind of folks that they want more than just the handful of clients, and they want to grow a business that operates without them, quote unquote. I would you see, you’re you’re in one of those camps or blend of the two or how where you fall in that.

00;15;05;01 – 00;15;28;08
Speaker 1
Well, I think it’s now been, fair to say, the better part of five years or more where I’ve really had to evaluate that closely. And I think I would like to see myself in a situation where, I’m more of a business owner than the operator. I think that that sounds neat anyway, but in reality, it’s a challenge, right?

00;15;28;08 – 00;15;59;24
Speaker 1
And certainly it’s, it’s not an easy one to overcome with marketing, but it with white labeling now being so abundantly available. I think finding the proper white label partner is the key to this. And, I’ve been on calls with other factions that, to your point said, you know, I just want to be in Europe and, you know, go get leads via ads or through my network and just pass it along.

00;15;59;26 – 00;16;27;28
Speaker 1
And so you’re essentially just selling at that point for a commission, right? Yeah. And, certainly I’m sure that works for some people. I have a deep, deep desire to, like, see things make progress. Like that’s what gets me out of bed every day. So I don’t envision myself going fully hands off. But, yeah, for the better part of five years, it’s been a real conundrum for me to try to figure out the formula.

00;16;28;00 – 00;16;59;16
Speaker 1
Definitely. Still working on that. But, you know, things are moving at a lightning speed now. Everything right with I. And even before I, I mean, the world is changing quickly. And so I think it’s fair to say we don’t really know where this what this looks like even in two years now, you know. Yeah. So as much as I’d love to paint a picture and go chase that down, I think just, you know, keeping your values where they need to be and knowing I makes things cheaper, but it makes trust more valuable.

00;16;59;18 – 00;17;04;18
Speaker 1
And so I think keeping that at the core is, is mission critical.

00;17;04;20 – 00;17;26;00
Speaker 2
Yeah. I yeah, it’s funny that you say that too, because I’ve adopted this term that I now have to say in almost every single conversation when I’m working with clients and the, the saying is in our current environment. Because it’s because I’m like, I, because they’ll ask me about questions about social media or whatever it is.

00;17;26;00 – 00;17;52;16
Speaker 2
And I’m like, well in our current environment because again, I, I say that and then 30 days later something changes and the environments change and it’s happening. It’s always happened quickly. You know, I want to say that we I got into marketing in like, I know, 2011, 2012 somewhere around there. And then we had, you know, mobile get it in 2015.

00;17;52;16 – 00;18;15;07
Speaker 2
And then in 2018, LinkedIn and Facebook decided to prioritize business pages for personal pages. And so everybody’s, you know, interactions and, and just fell through the floor. And then, you know, then we move forward. And it’s like every time I turn around, there’s a meet. And now for the last year, year and a half, we’ve been really seeing this AI thing happen, right?

00;18;15;07 – 00;18;26;06
Speaker 2
And it’s like, it changes so fast, man. And like what I say today might not be at all correct tomorrow in a different environment. So it’s yeah.

00;18;26;11 – 00;18;42;08
Speaker 1
It’s like look at YouTube wiping out 60,000 AI channels. You know, overnight they just wiped them right out. And those were channels that were probably making somebody’s money, you know, a lot of money. Yeah, yeah. So, who could have predicted that, you know.

00;18;42;08 – 00;18;46;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00;18;46;08 – 00;18;59;26
Speaker 2
Hard to predict. That’s. And that’s the other thing I say a lot too, right now is I’m like, well, I’m like, we’re what we’re doing right now we think is going to work for the next eight, 12 months. I like yeah. You know, I mean like what else do you tell people. I’m like I have no idea.

00;18;59;27 – 00;19;17;16
Speaker 2
Like six months from now Claude could have a thing where you literally like say here’s my website, create me and and create and execute an entire marketing program for me. Right. And so it’s like and then and then what happens? So it’s, it’s wild. What a wild night live it is.

00;19;17;16 – 00;19;40;06
Speaker 1
I have another term. I say marketing for the sake of marketing. And I think to some extent I maybe could be that side of it, which is, like you said, create me a whole marketing plan. And it’s like, okay, but where does that sort of, square peg fit into the bigger scope of things? And I think that’s where having a little bit of visionary leadership comes into play.

00;19;40;12 – 00;20;00;26
Speaker 1
You know, all these tools are just that. They’re tools. Yeah. And you can certainly go have fun and go play with the tools. But it’s really got to be, strategic and aligned and, and coordinated by someone who knows how those levers work and that you can share what you need to with someone like me that can then execute.

00;20;00;28 – 00;20;03;11
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;20;03;13 – 00;20;30;03
Speaker 2
Yeah. A spot on. Right. Like, I, I, I don’t see fractional as being less needed because of any of the emerging emerging technologies right now. If anything, we’re going to be more needed because, I mean, I’m I know I am, I’m sure you are. I’m sure most fractional right now was was the one thing we’re all doing is staying on the front of what’s happening with emerging technologies, right.

00;20;30;06 – 00;20;52;24
Speaker 2
Because we’re excited by it part, because we’re a little worried and scared by it. And like, you know what I mean? Like it’s like I mean, I know I definitely subscribe to multiple feeds where I’m like, it’s like my my red alert feed, where I’m like waiting for something that’s going to just drop a hammer on me so hard, and it’s going to make me have to really make major pivots in my business.

00;20;52;24 – 00;20;59;15
Speaker 2
And like, I know it’s going to happen. I’m also kind of excited about it. We’ll see what it’s going to do. I don’t know, it’s while yeah.

00;20;59;18 – 00;21;31;03
Speaker 1
I think that’s a good way to look at it. Because again, I think we may have talked about this in the last time we spoke, but there’s clearly going to be a commoditization of human interaction. Right. Like we’re people still need that. We’re still, you know, human beings. And so, I think just having good relationships, you know, like we talked about the sales skills and you able to know how to serve others and all those really basic things that, you know, maybe aren’t quite as abundant as much.

00;21;31;03 – 00;21;43;03
Speaker 1
Now, people are going to pay money for, you know, to be able to pick up the phone and have a trusted person answer that, you know, can execute on their S.O.S., there’s a premium.

00;21;43;05 – 00;22;04;18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Or even know how to figure it out on what’s causing the S.O.S.. Right? Right. Like, I do feel like, you know, every one of us that’s a CMO is in some capacity, a bit of a marketing marketing engineer. Right. Like, because we’ve seen so many things break and so many things go wrong over time, that it’s like our clients typically don’t understand how all these things work.

00;22;04;18 – 00;22;13;03
Speaker 2
That’s why they’re our clients. And so they’re like, I don’t know what’s going on, but this is happening. Fix it, and then you gotta figure it out.

00;22;13;06 – 00;22;38;15
Speaker 1
And I think it’s important to talk about why anyone would want to work with a fractional. Right. Yeah. You think about a salary for a marketing director or a CMO salary. And that’s what I’m in competition with. So, take that number and just know that it’s possible to have that seat filled and to have an entire team behind that and for a fraction of the cost.

00;22;38;20 – 00;22;48;19
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I love the business model. I think it’s just such a mutually beneficial thing to do. Yeah. It’s it’s great, I love it.

00;22;48;21 – 00;22;55;16
Speaker 2
Do you ever have the conversation with clients of where you’re like, hey, I think it’s time for you to hire in-house?

00;22;55;19 – 00;23;20;11
Speaker 1
Yes. That that definitely does come up. Again, I think it’s, you know, for what purpose? You know, sometimes it’s just boots on the ground, whether it’s an intern for the week or for the summer or something like that, it does help. It is a strength to have someone on the inside that my team can kind of consistently count on, and not because the wheels need to stay in motion.

00;23;20;11 – 00;23;47;23
Speaker 1
And sometimes that means we need to be in there somehow. And, in some cases, that’s me. I’ll go right into their office and all, you know, talk to whomever I need to and get answers for whatever we need. But it definitely, has come up for sure. But what you’ve seen, too, is a lot of fractions are deploying this, you know, niche down method where they’re saying, I work exclusively with dentists, lawyers, roofers.

00;23;47;25 – 00;23;56;22
Speaker 1
You know, I haven’t niched myself yet. But I also think I have a great fear around niching.

00;23;56;24 – 00;24;20;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, I share your fear, Chad. I do, I mean, you know, like, our niche is small, local business in a certain geographic footprint, and I don’t really move outside of that because our competitive advantage, I’m just another company outside of our geographic area and our geographic area. We have certain things that nobody else has, like our, the, our media offerings and all those things.

00;24;20;13 – 00;24;42;15
Speaker 2
So it’s like so my my niche has always been small business. However, I have considered in the past like am I missing out? I see a lot of companies. I see a lot of fractions that like you, they only work with IT companies, they only work with this company. That and it it seems to work really well for them.

00;24;42;17 – 00;24;57;02
Speaker 2
But I don’t know, I, I definitely attach a scarcity mindset when I think about that. I’m like I don’t know, like I then I’d have to be national. I wouldn’t be able. You can’t work with all all seven local IT companies and be their, their guy. Right.

00;24;57;03 – 00;25;17;09
Speaker 1
Like and then travel is upstate New York. Yeah. That’s an upstate New York thing. I’m sure. You know, it’s not to say that there isn’t an abundant number of dental offices around or something like that, but the way that I started my business was really, I would never say no. It was. Do you do weddings? Of course I do.

00;25;17;10 – 00;25;37;20
Speaker 1
You know. Do you do families? Sure I do. And so compound that over a decade, to this day, people will say, hey, do you do headshots? And I say, listen, I really only try to stick with things that you can think of because it’s all of it. I do, you know, I’ve done at this point products. Fashion.

00;25;37;22 – 00;25;58;13
Speaker 1
Headshot. I mean, so I love also the variety maybe that kind of makes my creative brain smile. You know, the variety is the spice of life kind of thing. So and then I think that also creates a snowball kind of compounding effect of, oh, wow. So you are you have experience in all these industries as well because I never say no.

00;25;58;15 – 00;26;21;16
Speaker 1
And then, as you know, we both love to network. And so, you know, something comes up, my client needs something. We we’ve got quite large Rolodex, to tap into, and it’s like, it’s just it’s it’s a it’s a nice place to be in, I think for this region, you know, if we were in Orlando or something and wanted to go after HVAC or something, there’s probably a thousand of those.

00;26;21;17 – 00;26;22;06
Speaker 1
Right.

00;26;22;09 – 00;26;45;23
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah. Yeah. We live in such a small community, I guess. Small beanie that, you know, real quick you’re going to be like, you’re going to run into an issue. I actually happened to me one time, years ago. I think I was working with 4 or 5 cleaning companies in my, in our area. And like, I know I was transparent about it.

00;26;45;23 – 00;27;17;18
Speaker 2
So every time one of them would, we’d be going through the sales cycle. I’d be like, hey, I just want like, you know, like I work with this company and this company and this company, and I can promise that there will be no disclosure, there will be no taking what they’re doing and, you know, adopting it, you know, like we don’t I had different people that work on each account like it’s, you know, but it was still it was like it was a challenge to make sure, because every once in a while, I’d have one team member posting for this company and another team member doing things for this other company, and they would do

00;27;17;18 – 00;27;26;17
Speaker 2
similar things, and I’d be like, oh my God, they’re going to, you know, they’re going to think I’m I’m doing something shady. Like I’m like, you got to change that immediately. You can’t do that.

00;27;26;17 – 00;27;51;26
Speaker 1
Like, well, I’ve lost clients to to the, the niche down, companies. You know, I think they do a really good job of spending a lot of money advertising to those specific sectors. Yeah. And, I guess it, you know, if you think about it, it’s just kind of a better hook, right? If you’re a plumber and and it’s something comes in front of you that says we do marketing for plumbers.

00;27;51;28 – 00;27;56;06
Speaker 1
I mean, that’s that’s a resonance immediately. Right? Yeah. So it’s definitely.

00;27;56;06 – 00;28;09;13
Speaker 2
Happened to me a few times over the years as well, for sure. And I’m like, no, I get it. My argument is always that like, you know, that means that your, your stuff is going to look like everybody else’s in your industry.

00;28;09;15 – 00;28;14;14
Speaker 1
But I don’t know. Yeah, it all comes back to whatever your goals are, right?

00;28;14;16 – 00;28;35;20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah it does. So I let’s switch back to sales for a little bit because like as we said in the beginning, you know, it I think that people are coming into a fractional operator scenario where they’re going to be a solopreneur, at least in the beginning, and maybe they’re going to grow in scale. But for most of us, we’re not stepping into a ready made business.

00;28;35;20 – 00;28;55;17
Speaker 2
Where were the we’re the show, right? And we’re selling it. We’re doing it. We’re invoicing it. We’re chasing the money to get those invoices paid. And, you know, we’re the chief cook and bottle washer can we touched on the importance of being able to sell, but I’d like to dig into that a little bit more so that these folks are a little more eyes wide open.

00;28;55;17 – 00;29;05;15
Speaker 2
As far as what it takes to like, you can be great at the thing, but if you can’t sell the thing and find new clients, you’re going to be in big trouble, right?

00;29;05;18 – 00;29;29;14
Speaker 1
Well, this is a conundrum for every business owner, right? And, being a fractional owner of solopreneur is certainly no different. And again, I’m on calls with others from around the country and we have conversations about this. A lot of them choose a, you know, meta ads campaign model and really focus on a targeted message and great content and that works for them.

00;29;29;16 – 00;29;57;01
Speaker 1
Some people say it’s got to be networking. It’s all it’s networking. It’s networking. I’m a big fan of networking. It’s it’s been my single biggest, result that I’ve seen in growing my business. But you know, there’s really no silver bullet I think it’s in each and every step of selling is, is important is the last.

00;29;57;01 – 00;30;12;25
Speaker 1
Right. I mean, if you have an ad that you come across and somebody reaches out to you, you’ve got to be able to execute on the next steps there and do it. Well, yeah. Having been in direct sales in my life, I think that’s been a nice little strength for me. But not everybody’s got that type of experience.

00;30;12;25 – 00;30;26;08
Speaker 1
So, it’s really about, you know, educating yourself on all of those different moving parts and steps along the process and not being afraid to grow yourself because that’s what being a solopreneur is all about.

00;30;26;11 – 00;30;51;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, I. Let me get your read on this, because one of the things that I say often, especially to solo operators, is in the beginning, you’ve got one of two choices. You can either go out there and learn how to be a salesperson and do the networking and talk to strangers and be uncomfortable and have the sweaty palms and the, you know, and all the things that you go through.

00;30;51;22 – 00;31;22;26
Speaker 2
You can either do that or you can spend a lot of money on marketing. And like, I mean, obviously you can do a blend of both, but I it’s and for most people, they don’t have that big marketing budget of 3 to 5 grand or whatever. It’s going to be out of the gate. And so I’m always like, hey, do me a favor, because I and I probably have this conversation a dozen times a year where there’s someone coming to me, they’re launching a new business, whether it’s a new fitness center or a fractional, consultancy or whatever it is.

00;31;22;26 – 00;31;41;27
Speaker 2
And they’re like, hey, I need marketing. And I’m always like, no, you don’t. And I remember one certain guy came to me, and this was like maybe two years ago, and he was a personal trainer, needed personal trainer clients, and he had a physical location, and he’s like, I need marketing. And I was like, no, you don’t.

00;31;41;29 – 00;31;58;20
Speaker 2
I’m like, what you need to do is you need to stick a pin in your location and look at a map within 15 minutes of that location, and you need to go talk to everybody in that circle physically and tell them who you are and what they do, and tell them when to come down and how to get involved.

00;31;58;22 – 00;32;28;08
Speaker 2
And like, you need to network and then because to me, and maybe this is a wrong approach, that maybe it’s bad advice, but I just have always felt that Mark spending money on marketing is what you do in order to scale your efforts, and it shouldn’t be your first thing. It should be the thing that once you know, once you have so many clients that you can no longer talk to every person in that that circle on a regular basis, you need to start figuring out how to scale that those efforts.

00;32;28;08 – 00;32;41;05
Speaker 2
And it can only come through either a hiring someone to do it for you, or be effective marketing that helps get you in front of all those people within that circle. Is that fair? Am I am I out of line with that?

00;32;41;07 – 00;33;07;21
Speaker 1
You’re 100% spot on in some of the larger sales companies that I know of are still deploying old fashioned door knocking. You know, I think there’s an irony to the world today, and it’s that more and more, as as things become more complex and technical and artificial. There is there’s a, there’s a void there. There’s a need for people to connect with people, and they’re not afraid to do that.

00;33;07;21 – 00;33;34;13
Speaker 1
It’s how we’ve always done things for as long as human beings were around and, even down to, one of the best ways to, to maybe still go out and get out there may not be to give meta $5,000, but maybe it’s an email campaign. And even that I consider it a little bit old school now, but it is a very effective way to to kind of do the same thing, for far less cost.

00;33;34;16 – 00;33;45;18
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, so if I was to say, give meta $3,000 or go knock doors this week, it’s like I’m sort of paying myself $3,000 to go knock doors.

00;33;45;20 – 00;33;47;11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right.

00;33;47;13 – 00;34;00;29
Speaker 1
So it’s definitely an interesting thing. And yes, people have that instinct. They say I need marketing. And and that’s where I say this is marketing for the sake of marketing, let’s market for the sake of your needs and goals and wishes and desires, you know.

00;34;01;04 – 00;34;24;22
Speaker 2
Yeah. And what’s going to work and what you can afford and what’s going to give you a return on investment. Because I’m sure you’ve seen it. I every time I work with a solo operator or a very small business owner, the expectation, even though I try to like manage the expectation and be transparent and help them understand like marketing is a marathon, not a sprint.

00;34;24;25 – 00;34;46;22
Speaker 2
But even still, the minute they write a check, they expect the phone to ring the next day, right? And I’m like, hey, we’ve got a plan. Here’s it’s going to take this amount of time in order for us to start seeing that return. And at like to your point, if you can’t afford to wait that time, then maybe just go knock on some doors, right?

00;34;46;24 – 00;34;59;29
Speaker 2
I still love a good door hanger. I don’t know about you. Yeah, but for for certain industries I like, especially like home services. I love door hangers. I think door hangers and yard signs. It’s like the easiest thing, man.

00;35;00;03 – 00;35;21;15
Speaker 1
It’s easiest if you’re especially depending on your industry. But. Yeah. No, I mean, that’s all all good points there. And I think, at least for me and how I market myself, which I, I do very much sort of behind the scenes, it’s very much relationship based. I don’t run ads. I cold call I don’t do a lot of cold outreach.

00;35;21;17 – 00;35;34;29
Speaker 1
I really try to really never be almost conversational to where it’s been revealed to me that there would be a value in this type of relationship, and then I bring it up.

00;35;35;02 – 00;35;42;16
Speaker 2
I love it, so not too pitchy, not to say pushy sales stuff and which again, I think.

00;35;42;18 – 00;36;10;14
Speaker 2
It’s interesting because one of our team members, Kelsey, you’ve met Kelsey. So Kelsey is starting to get more involved on the discovery calls and kind of really, she’s taking over the sales process for certain aspect of our business. However, like, she was very reticent about it. And I was like, Kelsey, I’m like, I am not like her idea of salespeople was that, you know, the idea that everybody has about salespeople.

00;36;10;14 – 00;36;26;10
Speaker 2
I was like, no, no, no, no. I’m like, that is not how we do it. Like, we literally we have a conversation with people. It’s a two way street. At the end of that conversation, they understand what we do. They understand how we do it. They understand, our price range or roughly what they be spending with us.

00;36;26;10 – 00;36;42;20
Speaker 2
And then we let them make the decision like there’s there’s no moves, there’s no you know, there’s nothing going on here. Because that was one thing she’d said to me. She’s like, I just don’t I don’t think I have the like sales skills that you have. And I was like, Kelsey, I don’t have sales skills. I just communicate with people.

00;36;42;23 – 00;36;47;25
Speaker 2
And then I literally let them decide, like it’s, yeah, it’s pretty easy.

00;36;47;27 – 00;37;11;03
Speaker 1
And it turns out listening is 80% of sales, you know? Yeah. And the old adage of the used pushy car salesperson, you know, let’s define that for a second. In my mind, the thing that characterized that type of salesperson is they just didn’t really they didn’t have the discovery part. Right. It’s almost like they didn’t care what you really needed or wanted.

00;37;11;03 – 00;37;21;18
Speaker 1
It’s just they jump that and go right to, well, have you seen this and that? Right. And so the fact that you’re even doing a discovery is sort of in and of itself a lot less salesy already, you know.

00;37;21;18 – 00;37;42;20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Well, how can you help someone if you don’t discover who they are and what they do and what they’re about? And, you know, so that I know that we’re getting, shorter on time. But, you know, one thing I wanted to ask you was, or talk to you about was the the power of the pivot as a small business owner.

00;37;42;20 – 00;37;53;25
Speaker 2
Right? So you you mentioned you’ve been doing this roughly 12 years. And how has your business changed in the last 12 years?

00;37;53;28 – 00;38;27;11
Speaker 1
I started again with primarily photography. Quickly recognized that there was a case to be made that I should probably incorporate video, and I had some experience in it. So that was my first kind of big leap, because now I’m essentially offering, you know, services that are in the same ecosystem. And it really made my company grow. But then I was up against this sort of internal battle where I needed to evaluate my pricing structure.

00;38;27;14 – 00;38;47;17
Speaker 1
I felt like, you know, based on the years and the investments in equipment and all the things that it was probably time to raise my prices. And the primary reason that became apparent was I actually had a client who took me aside and said, raise your prices. And I was like, I was have scared. I don’t know what if, oh my God.

00;38;47;21 – 00;39;10;21
Speaker 1
And they were relentless about it. And he said, raise your prices and watch and see. And I think the following year I believe I doubled my revenue. So, you know, there are formula to that, you know, raise your prices 10%. It actually equates to a larger, you know, and all these sorts of things. But I don’t raise my prices, without really feeling confident in doing that.

00;39;10;21 – 00;39;28;13
Speaker 1
Because for me it’s a struggle. It’s like a big deal for me to ask people to pay me and want to feel like I’m bringing the value. But, that level of confidence that I was given from that client really gave me what I needed to say. Yeah. You know, I think the world can support this, and there’s still value there.

00;39;28;15 – 00;39;50;18
Speaker 1
So that was a big morphing for me. But I would say at this stage of the game I really love doing the fractional stuff. Really, really interested in expanding that and continuing to learn. And again, my wake up in the morning and my reason and my wife is really just loving the the process of seeing things make progress.

00;39;50;21 – 00;40;05;22
Speaker 1
Oftentimes clients will come to me with essentially a blank sheet of paper. I don’t know what I don’t know, I don’t know what I need and what I want, right? And I’m like, perfect, I’m your guy. So yeah, I love that mapping things out and then and then executing.

00;40;05;25 – 00;40;26;26
Speaker 2
Do you think on the. Well, first of all, I want to I want to ask about when you were doing photo. And I can imagine how it happened. Right. You’re doing your work in a project for someone and they’re like, hey, can you, can you do that? Can you do video? Can you do this? And like, like most of us entrepreneurs, right?

00;40;26;29 – 00;40;46;22
Speaker 2
Yeah, I can, even though you may have no idea how to do it. Right. So you’re like, well, in my mind I’m thinking maybe I don’t really know how to do it, but I’m going to figure it out and I’m going to make it great. Right. It were you terrified when you started to add on different things that people were asking you to do?

00;40;46;25 – 00;41;10;23
Speaker 1
The only thing that terrified me was that I knew by stepping into this world, the video side as well, that I was staring down another monster investment. And I had just gone. And, you know, for years and years I had upgraded cameras, upgraded lenses, got all the photography lighting. But as soon as that switch flipped and I introduced video, I said, oh boy, now we need gimbals, now we need more video reveal lights.

00;41;10;23 – 00;41;30;29
Speaker 1
We need, you know, new tripods. And that was my only fear because, I actually did have experience in video, actually, from high school. I was fortunate enough to be part of, a first year media arts class in my school and did a ton of video stuff, won some awards with it. And I think that’s why I love working with young people, college age kids now, too.

00;41;30;29 – 00;41;37;15
Speaker 1
It’s just they’re so passionate and that’s what’s driven me the whole time. I’m just still that, you know, high school kid who loves to make stuff.

00;41;37;17 – 00;41;45;18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I love it. All right, last question for you.

00;41;45;21 – 00;42;10;19
Speaker 2
So recently, it’s interesting because, you know, our businesses have been very similar over the years. We offer some similar things. And we do similar service, albeit like I have told people for years now since I met you. Realistically, when if they’re asking us about photo or video, I’m like, well, we can do it. If you like mediocre photo video, we can certainly do it.

00;42;10;21 – 00;42;38;16
Speaker 2
But if you want it to be great, you need to call top. But then just recently though, I, I, I it’s a hard no for me now where when people are asking us to do certain things, I’m like, you know what? No, I can’t do that. I want you to call Todd. And and there’s a couple different things that we do now that we, you know, because for years, for most of the last 15 years, we’ve tried to be everything we could and say yes to everything we could.

00;42;38;16 – 00;43;00;13
Speaker 2
And and it had some benefits and, you know, certainly produces revenue, but it also produces scalability problems. And so as we are focusing on scalability right now and being better at what we do, and I, I realized I had to start saying no, that the only the path to scalability for us was saying no to some things. Right.

00;43;00;13 – 00;43;20;24
Speaker 2
And so like photo video, right now people ask us about it. I’m like, Carter, he’s the guy. And I’m just wondering because, again, similar paths for our businesses over the years. Are there any things that you’re saying no to now or are you are you still saying yes to everything?

00;43;20;26 – 00;43;49;25
Speaker 1
Well, I think what you just described is, is like almost a graduation in business ownership. It’s it’s the opportunity to say no, right. That you kind of it comes with time and experience and you earn that. And I would say there’s been a few instances where I’ve said no, but it’s it’s not often, because I’m still in a healthy enough place where I can still go shoot a wedding.

00;43;49;27 – 00;44;09;23
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I don’t do many of them anymore. I primarily moved, morphed a little bit more towards the corporate work. Yeah, but I love doing weddings, you know? So, you know, why would I not? And I meet new people, and that grows my network. And so I still look at it all like it’s all good. It’s another opportunity to expand my network and who knows who.

00;44;09;23 – 00;44;19;08
Speaker 1
And, I love doing that. And, just being in the rooms, different types of rooms for different reasons. It’s a it’s a big priority for me.

00;44;19;10 – 00;44;41;14
Speaker 2
Yeah. And it’s I definitely don’t want to make it sound like saying no is like a badge of honor or anything like that, because I do know that, like, I have met companies over the year that tried to be too specific, too soon, and so they said no to all types of shit. And then they found out they had no business.

00;44;41;16 – 00;45;00;22
Speaker 2
Right. So I don’t want to make it sound like it’s it’s a great thing. But for me it was just finding out that, like, here’s what we do and we’re really good at it, right. Like when it like when it comes to building websites like Kelsey and the team, I think our second to none. They are amazing. Right?

00;45;00;24 – 00;45;28;18
Speaker 2
And when it comes to some of the more technical stuff that we do, you know, Jeremy and Christian are amazing and they can figure anything out and make it work and do what they do. And when it comes to. But when it comes to when it came to like photo video and, and then like even social media, like I, I am pretty much saying no to it now at this point, because it’s just not what we’re great at, doesn’t have the impact for our clients that they want it to have.

00;45;28;20 – 00;45;41;21
Speaker 2
And so it’s become this thing. And but it’s been very helpful saying no in those circumstances and being able to, like, pull you in on a photo project or something with one of our clients. So, I just curious what your thoughts were on that, but.

00;45;41;23 – 00;45;49;20
Speaker 1
Well, I think no is not really what you’re saying. I think you’re just saying, yes. And also go talk to Todd, right?

00;45;49;21 – 00;45;52;19
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, there’s that much better research for this.

00;45;52;19 – 00;46;07;19
Speaker 1
Yeah. And that’s essentially like what a fractional CMO does in my mind, you know. Yeah. So you’re sort of, sitting in a similar situation, you’re just looking at a lever and saying, do we pull that lever? Does Todd pull that level?

00;46;07;19 – 00;46;13;22
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, that’s that’s a good point, Todd. I actually hadn’t thought about that way. Yeah, well thank you. I feel better now about that.

00;46;13;23 – 00;46;16;24
Speaker 1
Yes. Yes. Openings potential.

00;46;16;26 – 00;46;30;27
Speaker 2
Yes. Opens potential. All right. So, one more thing. I just any recent major changes in your business based on emerging technologies, anything that you’re doing now or looking at doing that you haven’t done in the past?

00;46;31;00 – 00;46;54;25
Speaker 1
I do think that I’m seeing a turnaround time on things that I don’t think two years ago, if you would have said, you know, can you design this, prepare it for the printer and have it out the door in a week? I would have said probably, yeah, I got to get with a graphic designer who’s going to do it and all that.

00;46;54;27 – 00;47;23;15
Speaker 1
Where I am seeing now, just with some really basic AI tools and understanding prompts, and how to use I it’s now the thing takes 20 minutes. You know, it’s just it’s such an exponential time, save that it’s almost like the question is now what do you do with all that extra time or the saved expense there? I think it’s something that universally, we all collectively are going to just have to get our heads around.

00;47;23;15 – 00;47;27;21
Speaker 1
And I don’t know what the answer is, but just I have been doing wonders for me.

00;47;27;24 – 00;48;03;23
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting you say that because I’ve actually we obviously have a very, again, not to plug, our software, but our software is very good at tracking everything. Right. So I like, have great intelligence on our business and what’s going on all the time. And we have been watching our billable hours go down because we’re so much faster at stuff which clients love because there’s been less money, you know, like and but I also love it, like, for the last ten years, roughly speaking, is about how long we’ve actually been doing the, like, CMO work.

00;48;03;28 – 00;48;25;25
Speaker 2
You know, it used to be outsource marketing department. Now it’s fractional CMO. And I always loved strategy, but hated the documentation part that I had to do for strategy. So like, I mean, I, I can come up, here’s the things we got to do marketing wise, but then you got to document them on paper and you gotta, you know, get it all so that you can share it.

00;48;25;25 – 00;48;32;09
Speaker 2
And but now I, I like it used to take me weeks. Now it takes me an hour. You know, like.

00;48;32;11 – 00;48;57;05
Speaker 1
I was talking to another fractional that’s national. They’re quite large and they serve small fractions like me. So I would say white label, I should say, and he was telling me he had read some book that was like, you know, check in every 15 minutes with yourself on what you’re doing. And he had I develop some code and literally build a direct, ad into his Google Chrome or whatever.

00;48;57;10 – 00;49;19;03
Speaker 1
And every 15 minutes he checks, it’ll prompt him and he checks in, and that’s feeding directly into a spreadsheet. And, you know, he, like, developed a little bit of a piece of software around that. Yeah. You know, so for creatives like us, I think it’s, it’s opening the doors so wide that it takes a human to help narrow this all down a little bit.

00;49;19;06 – 00;49;28;07
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, so my other favorite saying is everything’s possible today. And that’s great news. And the bad news is everything’s possible today. No.

00;49;28;07 – 00;49;30;05
Speaker 2
So yeah.

00;49;30;08 – 00;49;36;11
Speaker 1
Just helping people get that narrowed down in a plan. And, you know, it’s a lot of fun.

00;49;36;14 – 00;49;48;15
Speaker 2
That’s perfect. That’s the perfect place to enter. And I’ll keep you going all day here. What? Todd, if people want to learn more about who you are, what you’re doing, and how you help businesses and people, where can they find you?

00;49;48;17 – 00;49;55;16
Speaker 1
I’m on all the socials, Todd Bailey, and my website is TB photo pix pics.

00;49;55;18 – 00;50;01;02
Speaker 2
Com okay, perfect. Todd it’s great to see your face man. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

00;50;01;05 – 00;50;02;19
Speaker 1
Always. Thank you for having me.

00;50;02;21 – 00;50;38;08
Speaker 2
Yeah yeah thanks of course everybody for listening again. You can find all the episodes as they come out. You can find them at hourglass. Ask.com. That’s hourglass essence as in software as a service.com. You can watch listen on Spotify, YouTube, Apple I think even rumble. And you know, of course, check out our blog and check out if you if you feel like getting a weekly email from us that has a bunch of curated content for fractional BI, fractional, go ahead and go to our website and you can sign up for that newsletter.

00;50;38;08 – 00;50;49;18
Speaker 2
That’s what we’re sending out each week. It’s not a spam, it’s not a sales. It’s just us trying to get information from around the internet into your inbox. So check it out. Please subscribe. Thanks everybody. Todd thanks again.

00;50;49;20 – 00;50;50;06
Speaker 1
Thank you.